keep up trouble-brewing. He will introduce a great many things we do not want introduced-tobacco chewing, smoking, breaking up property, mean little vicious habits, etc.

The Chairman: I desire to make an observation that I gather from this very interesting discussion, and that is that the remedy lies back beyond the institution; it lies in the home. If this class of defectives are so easily led by the reading of dime novels and the stories of the criminal heroes, would they not be led back to good citizenship by the story of heroism and bravery displayed in the world by the great and good men who have played so admirably their part in human affairs? Does the cause of the trouble not lie in the fact that our children are exposed to these bad influences? The impression that is conveyed to the young from the reciting of incidents in history was very forcibly brought to my mind some years ago as I read to my family the story of Sheridan's heroic dash down the Shenandoah Valley. My boy of six or seven years of age had a little pony that he used to ride. I was relating what Sheridan did,-how he came dashing along the road on his horse and found his soldiers retreating and swung his hat and called on them to go back, and they answered it by yelling and following him. The next day as I was going down town to my office I found my boy galloping along the street with his hat in his hand and yelling, "Come on!" I inquired that evening what he was doing. He said, "I was acting Sheridan." That is but a little incident; as I look back over my own life I can recall many things in which I was imitating others. In our younger days we adopt and follow the things performed by great men and women in the past, either for good or evil.

I think the remedy lies back in the home and in society, and before the child gets to the institution.

The next number on the program is also one of great importance to the institutions and to the state of Iowa, "The Paroling of the Delinquent Girl," by Ray M. Hanchett, State Agent, Industrial School for Girls, Mitchellville, Iowa.

The paper will be found on page 6.

The Chairman: The paper is open for discussion.

Member McColl: Do you favor the paroling of boys from Eldora and girls from Mitchellville into the same homes? Miss Hanchett: I do not.

Member McColl: Why not?

Miss Hanchett: I think it is willingly or knowingly placing temptation in their way. I am not in favor of it. I would not knowingly place a girl where there is a boy from Eldora.

Mr. Vial: We have had several cases like that. I have not shown any disposition to take boys away from homes where there were girls. I do not usually fear the effects of hired girls on our boys. They are usually country girls. I think the girls have more to fear usually than the boys. In one case I have in mind I wrote to the family, and the reply was that they had two hired men when the girl was placed there, and that the boy was more honorable than the men were. I looked into another case, in which neither the boy nor the girl knew where the other was from. The boy seemed to like that home better than any other he had ever had, and the hired girl was a ladylike girl.

Member McColl: I was simply asking the question in a general way.

Mr. Vial: I have given these two cases some thought myself. If I had known at the time that a girl from Mitchellville was in the home I should not have placed the boy there; but the homes are good, both of them. They did not tell me that the girls were from Mitchellville in their applications to me.

Warden Sanders: I am a little interested in this. I used to handle boys myself in the public schools, and I have sometimes believed that we have some morons, as we call them, outside of the state institutions that need looking after. This whole thing resolves itself into this one proposition: Where are you going to put these delinquents? The greatest responsibility lies in rearing the boy, whether it is your own or the other fellow's. I know for I had two of my own, and I have two of the other fellow's now. I think the whole study in placing these delinquent children should be devoted to studying the place to which they are to be committed. In other words, I would not want a boy from Eldora and a girl from Mitchellville to be in the same family, and yet, if the place where they are to be taken care of is carefully studied, in regard to the individuality of the head of the house and the lady of the house, and all the setting, if you

please, of the picture is carefully studied, and if those who take the children to care for have force, they will overcome very much of the delinquency and will help to rear them in the right way. Very much depends upon their big percentage of wisdom and ability to overcome the small percentage of the delinquency. The Chairman: In other words, you would be careful about placing a delinquent girl in a home with a delinquent boy? Warden Sanders: No, sir; not so much that as the moral standard the people to whom they go have, and the strength of character they have. I believe I could make a selection of three or four prisoners who could go into a good strong home and make good, even if there were an inmate from Eldora and one from Mitchellville there, and one from the female department of Anamosa if you would let me pick the place where they are to go to, but I would spend much time in picking that place.

As to paroling, while I am not a member of the board of parole, yet I know many of the conditions. I have in my pocket just now a letter received from a prisoner paroled from our institution a few days ago. The last words I said to him were, "Now, remember the saloons in Council Bluffs are closed early. Make your calculations on going in there when the saloons are closed." He had to go there to make connections to his destination. This letter recites the experience he had in going through Council Bluffs, and, later on, his experience with his employer. That to my mind is the whole thing. In other words, a person is not going to fall down if he has a good home. It is not so much where he is going to work as where he is going to stay when his work is over; in other words, the home.

Superintendent Kuser: I think that all of us who have had dealings with children or grown-ups realize that the conditions, the environments are of importance. We say, if the conditions had been good in the home we probably would not have had the boy. We ought to know the conditions where the boy goes. For the same reasons that Warden Sanders would ticket a man into Council Bluffs when the saloons are closed, I would not place a boy with a girl from Mitchellville. We should not make it hard for them by putting something in their way that may cause them to stumble and fall; they are going to have a hard enough fight with conditions as favorable as we can get them.

comers.

Let us make it as fair and easy as we possibly can. I know they have good girls that they send out from Mitchellville. I visited in a home last spring where one of those girls is working, and a more ladylike young women you could not find anywhere, and she is competent and has the confidence and respect and love of the people with whom she is. We also have boys who do well, and it is all because of favorable conditions and the attention that we give each specific case. That is one thing I should like to mention right here. The state agents have too much to do to make a personal study of each case and visit paroled children as often as they should, and to make themselves acquainted with the newAt least our state agent does. The chances are that Mr. Vial can not see boys whom he places for a long time. He probably can not find time to see them until within a few months before they are ready to go out on parole. When he visits the town one of these boys is from people often ask him, "How is John Smith getting along?" He probably must answer, "Well, I really do not know; I think if he were a bad boy I would hear about it." It would be a mighty fine thing if the state agent had time to take each boy to the office and talk with him, and say, "When I go to your town I shall probably see your folks, and I want to be able to say to them that you are doing well." I hope the time will come when they will have the time to give to the individual boy or girl, not only those who have gone out, but those who are to go out in a few months.

Col. Horton: I think that in addition to the force Warden Sanders speaks about we should have tact; tact in the way of leading them on, which is a great help to them. I have had some experience in that. I have had four or five girls from Mitchellville in years past. But I did not think it was wise; I did not think it was the place for them, and I always endeavored to keep the fact that they came from Mitchellville away from every one else. I want to say that those I had from Mitchellville were all married in a short time and left. I had a number of boys from Eldora that made good. I always make it a point not to let others know, if avoidable, where they came from. I think tact in getting along with them is as important as force of character.

The Chairman: We will proceed with the next number on the program, entitled "The Delinquent Woman," by Felix H. Pickworth, Chaplain, The Reformatory, Anamosa.

I might say that a few days ago I heard a discussion wherein a party claimed that the per cent of women in the reformatories, penitentiaries and industrial schools was less than that of the men, and this was attributed to the fact that the women as a whole are more temperate in the use of intoxicating liquors. That was a new idea to me.

The paper will be found on page 10.

The Chairman: The paper of the Rev. Pickworth is now before the conference for discussion. I wish we had thought of it in time and had a representation of ladies of the city here. They have taken up the matter of the establishment of the new reformatory with the board of control. This is a matter of considerable importance to the board and the board is glad to get the views of the people, especially of the women, just where to establish this reformatory, and the kind to inaugurate. So I hope a full and complete discussion of this paper will be had at this conference.

Superintendent Sickels: It was a most excellent paper, but in one thing I must disagree with the writer, and that is placing it near Anamosa and placing it under the superintendency of a man. I believe that since it is to be a women's prison it should be under the superintendency of a woman. believe in men having anything to do with the running of that institution.

In

Member Dixon: I heartily agree with the lady. The most successful women's reformatory in the United States is governed by a woman, as Mrs. Sickels just stated. The men have very little to do with it. The Bedford Reformatory, of New York, is pointed out as the most advanced reformatory. that institution all of the officers, including the head farmer, are women. The run the farm, about five hundred and sixty acres, and the farm is well conducted and well improved, and the entire work is superintended by a woman, and the women inmates do most of the work. It is located out in the country, two miles from a very small village, and it seems to me that the conditions there are ideal for a women's reformatory. I believe women know delinquent women much better than men do and can do much more for them.