the United States joins the Berne Convention, this is one aspect that could be amended, because, as you know, one of the reasons that the United States has initiated the GATT proceedings is the lack of enforcement. So this is one aspect of enforcement, and it might be that the procedure of the International Court of Justice is not sufficient in that respect, and one could think in terms of another body that could enforce the provisions of the Berne Convention. But anyway, as it stands now, only the country itself would judge whether its legislation is compatible or not to the Berne Con

vention.

Now, with respect to the question of formalities. I must say that when Mr. Tarnofsky proposed and suggested that the United States may maintain the notice or other formalities with respect to its nationals, I had some, I would not say doubts but, uneasy feelings. I think that, formally, it might be correct to say so, because no other country would argue that the United States would be in the breach of its international undertakings because it affects only its nationals and not nationals of other countries. However, in light of the very clear provision in Article 5, I would say that such a distinction would not be in line with the spirit of the Convention. So that, unlike the other proposals, for instance, to maintain, formalities and notice as a presumption of evidence, would be entirely in line with the Berne Convention, and I think that would be a useful provision. I know myself, when I was the Head of the Patent Office, from time to time, authors in Israel wanted to have some form of voluntary registration, because this was lacking in the system, because they wanted really to reaffirm their authorship. So I think that this would be in line and would be even useful, but to make the distinction between nationals and foreigners, while formally it might be in line with the Convention, although this can be argued, I don't think that it would be a good, if I may say so.

Now, as you could see, the question of interpreting the Convention, as we are here a number of experts and there are a number of questions, there have been a number of views, including the question of compulsory licensing. So, I think that it will be up to the United States to accept one or the other views with respect to compulsory licensing. It is my view that, with the exception of the jukebox case, all the other compulsory licenses that were proposed are in line with the Convention.

Thank you.

Mr. KASTENMEIER. Thank you, Mr. Gabay. Mr. Rumphorst.

Mr. RUMPHORST. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to address once again this question of self-execution or not. I think Mr. Berman, what was said yesterday was slightly different. I think we said it is not for Berne to say whether Berne is self-executing or not. It is for national constitutional law to decide that question. So we cannot address it. It is up to your law. You must see whether, under your constitutional system, this Convention is the type of convention that would be self-executing or not in your country. I believe to know that you do recognize that there are international conventions which are self-executing. I also believe to know that you would recognize that certain parts of a convention may be selfexecuting, whereas others are not, and that a criterion is, well, is a particular provision of a convention directly enforceable or not, or

do we need implementing legislation for that? And if that is correct, then I would once again, as I did yesterday, refer to article 5. which says very clearly, the authors, foreign authors, shall enjoy the protection that your legislation grants, and then I quote: "as well as the rights specifically granted by this Convention," and there are rights which are specifically granted. So, without wanting to interfere in any way with the interpretation of American constitutional concepts, I would personally imagine that you might come to the conclusion: indeed, these are rights which are specifically granted and which are clearly defined. To that extent, the Convention would be self-executing under your U.S. system.

Thank you.

Mr. KASTENMEIER. Thank you, Mr. Rumphorst. May we briefly hear from Señora del Corral.

Mrs. MILAGROS DEL CORRAL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Concerning the question put forward by Representative Moorhead about formalities, on the impact of protection on your nationals outside if you maintain formalities for U.S. authors. Eventual impact aside, I can inform you that this situation was in force in Spain but has now been abolished. We had compulsory registration, in our country for our nationals, but this had no impact in their protection outside. So this is not a fear you should have. It should only be thought of at the national level because it is a penalty for your authors in your own country. You are going to protect foreign authors without any formalities and you oblige your own authors to respect certain formalities, to comply with the law. But, it is up to you of course to do so.

Concerning the other points, for example retroactivity, I will not repeat what I said yesterday, Mr. Chairman, because I know it has been recorded and it is too late to begin once more. But I would like to given an opinion about the observation that there is no “admission process" in the Berne Union, as the Director General very well said. You should also, we all should, take into consideration that it is not the same if the U.S. is entering the Berne Union or if, let's say, another country is deciding to join the Berne Union. It is, of course, very important that when such a step is taken by the United States, everything should be seen very carefully to avoid problems in other Berne countries, which are not allowed to say anything and must comply with the obligations as member States vis-à-vis the United States after their adherence. This is just a matter for reflection concerning retroactivity.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. KASTENMEIER. Thank you, Señora Del Corral. And now briefly for a concluding remark, Mr. Boytha.

Mr. BOYTHA. I should like to respond to the kind allusion made by Mr. Berman to my statement concerning the question of the self-execution of Berne. I conceived my statement fully as it was clarified now by Mr. Rumphorst and, in order to avoid any misunderstanding, I should read one sentence of the report of the Paris Conference for the Revision of the Berne Convention which, in this context, stated the following: "it was understood that in countries, according to the constitution of which treaties were self-executing, no separate legislation was necessary to implement those provisions of the Convention which, by their nature, were susceptible of

direct application." That is to say there are rules in the Berne Convention which might become self-executing, without separate domestic legislation, provided that the applicable constitution rendered them self-executing.

Thank you very much.

Mr. KASTENMEIER. Thank you, Mr. Boytha.

This concludes the formal part of our two-day proceeding in which you have been so good as to participate. We have learned a great deal. This has not been an idle endeavour on our part. We have, I think, come to understand at least the expectations of our country in terms of its adherence to Berne, potentially, and to better understand also the issues that still remain for us to resolve. Today in our country, it is a national holiday; it is a day of Thanksgiving, we call it. If we were in our own country, we would not be working today. But we are here, and our thanks, our "thanksgiving", really is to you. We are pleased and proud to be representing our country in this distinguished setting with those of you who have contributed to our understanding of the Berne Convention.

I would, at this moment, like to present to Dr. Bogsch a gift on our part. We note that he has, in the outer chamber, a piece of the moonrock. Well, I would like to present Dr. Bogsch a pen from the Library of Congress; we call it a space pen. This is part of our new technology and it is a token of our esteem and very deep appreciation. He has largely deferred so that others could speak here. His presence is with distinction noted and we are grateful for his hospitality on behalf of the World Intellectual Property Organization and on your behalf as well.

Dr. BOGSCH. Thank you, Sir. Thank you very much. Thank you also for the space pen.

Mr. KASTENMEIER. Also, Dr. Bogsch, I would like to indicate that Congressman Moorhead, and myself, on behalf of our delegation, would like to present a certificate of appreciation to each of you as participants. It is something other than words itself. It is an indication of the fact that we not only appreciate but highly value your contributions. The hour has arrived when we conclude this symposium, perhaps we can call it that, and our very best wishes and thanks to you all. This conference stands adjourned.

[Background information on specialists follows:]

BACKGROUND INFORMATION ON THE SPECIALISTS INVITED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSIONS ON UNITED STATES ADHEREnce to the BERNE CONVENTION

SPECIALISTS

Mr. Shahid Alikhan (Panel 1), Director, Developing Countries (Copyright) Division, World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), Geneva, Switzerland.

Mr. György Boytha (Panel 1), Director General, Hungarian Bureau for the Protection of Authors' Rights, Budapest, Hungary.

Mr. Jean-Louis Comte (Panel 3), Director, Swiss Federal Intellectual Property Office, Berne, Switzerland.

Mrs. Milagros Del Corral (Panel 2), Secretary General, Spanish Federation of Publishers Associations, Madrid, Spain.

Prof. Dr. Robert Dittrich (Panel 4), Ministerialrat, Federal Ministry of Justice, Vienna, Austria.

Mr. Mayer Gabay (Panel 1), Commissioner of the Civil Service, Ministry of Finance, Jerusalem, Israel.

Mr. Roland Grossenbacher (Panel 3), Deputy Director, Swiss Federal Intellectual Property Office, Berne, Switzerland.

Prof. Gunnar Karnell (Panel 3), Head, Department of Law, Stockholm School of Economics, Stockholm, Sweden.

Mr. Jukka Liedes (Panel 3), Special Adviser on Copyright Affairs, Ministry of Education, Helsinki, Finland.

Mrs. Margret Möller (Panel 2), Ministerialraetin (Ministerial Counsellor), Federal Ministry of Justice, Bonn, Federal Republic of Germany.

Mr. Werner Rumphorst (Panel 4), Director, Legal Affairs Department, European Broadcasting Union, Geneva, Switzerland.

Mr. Victor Tarnofsky (Panel 4), Assistant Comptroller, Industrial Property and Copyright Department Registry, London, United Kingdom.

Prof. Dr. Dirk W.F. Verkade (Panel 2), Professor of Law, Katholieke Universiteit, Nijmegen, The Netherlands.

Mr. Jean-Alexis Ziegler (Panel 2), Secretary General, International Confederation of Societies of Authors and Composers (CISAČ), Paris, France.

Mr. Shahid Alikhan

Mr. Shahid Alikhan, a national of India, has been Director of the Developing Countries (Copyright) Division of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) since 1981. He joined WIPO in 1976. His responsibilities include participating in the formulation of the Development Cooperation Program of the Organization in the fields of copyright and neighboring rights; participating in the execution of that Program through planning and dealing with substantive aspects of fellowship training programs; advising on legislation and administration; representing WIPO at meetings dealing with copyright and neighboring rights of particular interest to developing countries.

Mr. Alikhan was born in India. He is the holder of an Honours and Masters Degree from the University of Hyderabad, India.

Mr. Alikhan served as a career civil servant with the Government of India. He was Joint Secretary in the Ministry of Education and Culture and officiating Additional Permanent Secretary immediately prior to joining WIPO. Mr. Alikhan has represented the Government of India at a number of international conferences, including as leader of the delegation.

Mr. György Boytha

Mr. György Boytha, a national of Hungary, has been Director General of the Hungarian Bureau for the Protection of Author's Rights since May 1985. From April 1977 to April 1985, he was a member of the staff of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). He occupied the post of Director of the Copyright Law Division from October 1983 to April 1985. Since 1966, he has been lecturing on comparative and international copyright law at the University of Budapest, where he became associate professor in 1977.

Mr. Boytha was born in Budapest in 1929. He holds degrees (Dr. Jur. et pol.) from the University of Sciences of Budapest.

Mr. Boytha is Associate President of the Hungarian Association for the Protection of Industrial Property (MIE); member of the Board of the International Private Law Section of the Hungarian Lawyers' Association; member of the Executive Bureau and Administrative Council of the International Confederation of Societies of Authors and Composers (CISAC); and member of the Administrative Council of the International Society for Copyright (INTERGU). Mr. Boytha has published writings in the fields of contract law, conflicts of laws and copyright.

Mr. Jean-Louis Comte

Mr. Jean-Louis Comte, a national of Switzerland, is currently Director of the Swiss Federal Intellectual Property Office in Berne, which he joined in 1950. In that Office he has occupied the posts of scientific expert, head of technical section, Chairman of the Board of Appeal, and Deputy Director and Director. Mr. Comte is chairman of a number of bodies and meetings of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) and of the European Patent Office (EPO) in Munich.

Mr. Comte was born in 1924 at Courtételle (JU), Switzerland. He studied at St. Maurice (high school, type A), at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH) and at Zurich (diploma in chemical engineering; Dr. sc. techn.-Prof. Fierz).

Mr. Comte has been a lecturer at the Centre for International Industrial Property Studies (CEIPI), Strasbourg, since 1965.

Mrs. Milagros Del Corral

Mrs. Milagros Del Corral, a national of Spain, is the Secretary General of the Spanish Federation of Publishers' Associations. She held several offices in the Span

ish public administration and has represented the Spanish Government in the Berne Convention Executive Committee (WIPO) and in the UCC Intergovernmental Copyright Committee (UNESCO) for a period of four years. She chaired the Berne Convention Executive Committee in 1979.

Mrs. Del Corral was born in Spain. She obtained the Phil. D. at the Complutense University of Madrid.

Mrs. Del Corral has participated in meetings of international groups of experts for the study of copyright problems. From 1980 to 1984, she was a member of the Legal and Legislation Commission of the International Confederation of Societies of Authors and Composers (CISAC). From 1983 to 1987, Mrs. Del Corral was Secretary General of the Publishers Association Madrid. She has published studies on copyright in Spain and in other countries and has lectured in different universities and professional associations of Spain, Germany, the United Kingdom, the Soviet Union and the the United States of America.

Professor Dr. Robert Dittrich

Professor Dr. Robert Dittrich, a national of Austria, is Ministerialrat (Director) at the Federal Ministry of Justice in Vienna, Austria. He has had a judiciary career and is currently head of a department responsible, among other things, for copyright in the Federal Ministry of Justice. Dr. Dittrich is also a professor at the University of Vienna and Salzburg.

Dr. Dittrich was born in 1925 in Vienna. He did his studies in Vienna.

Dr. Dittrich was Head of the Austrian Delegation to the 1971 Diplomatic Conferences for the Revision of the Berne Convention and of the Universal Copyright Convention and of the Austrian Delegation to the 1971 Diplomatic Conference which adopted the Geneva Phonograms Convention. Dr. Dittrich is the author of numerous books and articles in the field of copyright.

Mr. Mayer Gabay

Mr. Mayer Gabay, a national of Israel, has been Commissioner of the Civil Service in the Ministry of Finance in Jerusalem, Israel, and Chairman of the Patent Law Revision Committee since May 1987. After working in the United Nations Secretariat on Legal Aspects of International Economic Relations, he returned to Israel where he was appointed to various senior positions, including Commissioner of Patents, Trademarks and Copyright, and Deputy Attorney General. From February 1976 to May 1987, Mr. Gabay was Director General of the Ministry of Justice.

Mr. Gabay was born in Jerusalem in 1933 to a family of Spanish descent who settled in Israel following the expulsion of the Jewish Community from Spain at the end of the 15th century. Mr. Gabay graduated with distinction from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem Law School, and later received a Master's degree in Comparative Law from Columbia University, New York. He did a major study on International Transactions at the London School of Economics.

Mr. Gabay has been elected President of the United Nations Association of Israel, a member of the Council of the Israeli Bar Associates and has been a senior lecturer on Intellectual Property and International Trade Law at the universities of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. Mr Gabay was a member of the Israeli team negotiating the autonomy plan with Egypt under the Camp David Accords. He has been designated a member of the World Bank pool of arbitrators under the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes, and was engaged in negotiating the Free Trade Agreement between the United States and Israel.

Mr. Roland Grossenbacher

Mr. Roland Grossenbacher, a national of Switzerland, is currently Deputy Director of the Swiss Federal Intellectual Property Office in Berne. From 1974 to 1976 he served as an advocate before the law courts. Since 1976 he has worked for the Swiss Federal Intellectual Property Office: in 1979 he became head of a section, in 1984 he became Vice-Director and in 1985 he became Deputy Director.

Mr. Grossenbacher was born in 1950 at Zurich, Switzerland. He did his high school and law studies in Zurich, where he completed high school (matura) in 1968, and did his first examination in law (lic. en droit) in 1974. He was awarded a Doctorate of Jurisprudence in 1977, and completed his bar exam in 1979.

Mr. Grossenbacher has written various publications in the field of copyright and is a lecturer in copyright at the Institutue of Journalism at the University of Fribourg.